Minutes of OGSA-WG telecon meeting Wednesday March 23rd, 2005 ============================================================= Attendees: Fred Maciel, Andrew Grimshaw, Mark Morgan, Tom Maguire, Ian Foster, Dave Berry, Jay Unger, Jem Treadwell, Kazushige Saga (NAREGI), Soonwook Hwang (NAREGI), Takuya Mori, Frank Siebenlist, Hiro Kishimoto Apologies received from: Latha Srinivasan, David Snelling, Mike Behrens, Andreas Savva Notes: Jem Treadwell GGF13 wrap-up: ============== Discussion about the GFSG suggestion of promoting Design teams to become working groups. Ian: What would be the charter of the new working groups? Hiro: Up to chair. Ian: so we're proposing to creat WG's without a charter? Andrew: no they would have normal charters, but the process would be accelerated. Hiro: Currently only two groups would go to WG's: Naming (had BOF) and Data. Dave: Charter needs some work - not clear on milestones. Andrew: Some concerns with EMS becoming a WG at this stage - has to be tightly integrated and has ramifications for OGSA. Jay: Also concerned because we might have leadership issues. Hiro: We need additional people to get involved, and we can't have whole-group meetings as we do today. Ian: We're rightly focused on bottom-up, and trying to keep the two going together. Andrew: I think we can continue as a design team... Jay: I really want to see us pick the fruit from the next branch above the container and plough [or plow for US spellers] ahead with normative spec. I think that's going to happen as a separate activity or in a WG. Hiro: Should continue as a Design Team? Jay: Yes, until we get a clearer signal on leadership or agenda. Hiro: DIfferent form Data Team, right? Dave wants to promote to a WG becasue there are many people who want to contribute. Jay: Yes, it's more an organizational issue than a technical issue - e.g. separate mailing list. Dave B: Yes, that's part of it, plus GFSG wants to see more visibility. Fred: If it's a WG it would be similar to the CMM WG, w.r.t how to connect to the OGSA group. Hiro: Different, because Data has a lot of active members from the whole Data area. Fred: Agree. Dave: Autonomy... Jay: OGSA pesters groups that weren't chartered by OGSA, so we'll clearly pester this group! Hiro: I'll continue to work with Dave to produce a consistent charter, and will talk to Ravi to get his feelings about the EMS team, and will give feedback to GFSG. Ian: Forming a WG would provide a charter for design teams that are currently confusing to people. Status of GGF13 session minutes: Most are posted on GridForge now; remainder will be posted soon. Hiro: Postpone approval of minutes until next week, as they're no all reviwable. Agreed. GGF Issues? Jem: Dates were changed after first announcement; changes need to be announced much more clearly (subject of mail) so that people have a chance to change travel plans. Fred: GGF14 has changed now; Hiro: GGF15 no longer in Boston... Tom: Sessions well attended, lots of thoughtful comments, etc. [All agreed.] Jay: Yes, it was a watershed and it's up to us to keep the momentum going. Telecon Schedule: Hiro: Dave Snelling has asked to make the time for Basic Profile (B/P) discussions earlier; more convenient for UK people. Proposal: have B/P work sessions 1-3pm Eastern time on Wednesdays, and continue with general sessions at normal time (6pm Eastern) as well. Summarize B/P progress at the start of each evening session. Hiro will not attend; too early for Japan time. Tom will propose time to the mailing list. Hiro/Takuya: Dane Skow, GGF Security Area Director - proposing to have a security discussion with B/P - Frank, Sam would need to be involved. Need to agree a date with key people. Profile Template: Informational document, written by Dave Snelling and others. Needs to be rationalized and synced with the way B/P is being normatively described. Need to rectify discrepancies. Jay: Four more discussions should be too many; how about just scheduling two? Agreed. Jay: doesn't seem as urgent as B/P. Hiro: agree, but want to submit both to the Editor simultaneously. Tom: Shouldn't be too much work. Jay: Shouldn't it be part of the B/P discussion, rather than OGSA? Yes, but Hiro would like to attend these. Roadmap: Hiro: Roadmap not worked on since GGF12. Andrew: A defacto roadmap is beginning to emerge - we have a number of things being spawned out (ByteIO, RNS, WS-Naming etc.) - they have schedules, and we see a timeline. INFOD is beginning to take shape. Hiro: Yes, but it's not written down. Dave: Giving a talk to the Astronomy RG, and I can only tell them what's happening because I participate here. Jay: This is input to a roadmap being crafted by the broader standards community. Hiro: Yes, and for the GFSG. Ian: Haven't moved forward because things seem quite fluid, and we know very little about what will happen next. Jay: Yes, but we could be proactive about what should come next. We should take a crack at it. ACTION: Ian/Jay/Hiro/Andrew plus any other volunteers to get a first draft by April 13th. EMS: Jay: Need to make some decisions about leadership; Ravi is overcommitted. Ian: Right now we have hands filled with doing basic stuff, and it will become clearer as other things are finished. Jay: Could put it in abeyance for now. Andrew: Make it a low priority. Hiro: OK, we'll table this one for a while. Resource Mgmt: Fred: Need private teleconferences since the analysis work will be very tedious for most; report at the OGSA f2f. Fred will organize some out-of-band con-calls. Tom: CDDLM/OGSA relationship? Dejan Milojicic (CDDLM co-chair) wants to establish a closer relationship, and would like to have a joint mtg with OGSA at GGF14. Tom: JISC (Joint Information Systems Council) sponsoring E-Science Workshop in Edinburgh April 28-29 (http://tinyurl.com/6pljw) that will pull in work from OGSA, CDDLM etc. CIM is too complex for them. It would be good to have a presence, to be able to talk about OGSA, Resource Mgmt etc. Hiro: Tom to be a liaison? Yes; but other possibilities. Dave Berry? Local, but not much background. Dave: Paul Anderson was involved with GridWeaver; see gridweaver.org to see more background. Tom: Also a project called OGSA-config. Hiro: Need to keep aware of these activities. Next F2F ======== May 25/26 is the current proposal. Some people prefer to make it earlier in the week, so Hiro will take a poll for preferred dates. Basic Profile ============= Tracker 1316: Had a brief discussion at GGF13. If we had a naming profile today and we had a basic profile, would you want naming profile to extend the basic profile? Andrew: yes; Jay no. Don't think it should be a requirement. Andrew: if you follow the naming, it doesn't prevent you from following B/P. Jay: think it's best to let things compose. Tom: I agree, having been through this before. Consensus: Compose, not extend. Set to Resolve, Andreas to close it. Hiro: What's the target date for Naming Profile. Andrew: Think it was to have a draft by GGF14. 1315: We agreed to do this at GGF13, so set to Resolved. [Tom quickly reviewed status of a few others with no discussion.] Tom will try to get an update of the draft out each Friday, so that it can be reviewed the following week. Discussion around use of WS-I boilerplate text: Tom would like to be able to use their front matter, and put a citation that attributes it to WS-I. Would prefer to be able to use if verbatim, but concerned about copyright; putting GGF copyright on it would violate WS-I copyright, as it does not provide for parts of the document being copyrighted by others. Hiro to ask GFSG for advice, and Tom will add a tracker to cover this. Adjournment =========== Meeting adjourned at 8:03 Eastern time.