OGSA teleconference - 26 January 2005 ====================================== * Participants Mike Behrens (R2AD, LLC) Dave Berry (NeSC) Hiro Kishimoto (Fujitsu) Fred Maciel (Hitachi) Tom Maguire (IBM) Mark Morgan (UVa) Andreas Savva (Fujitsu) Dave Snelling (Fujitsu) Latha Srinivasan (HP) Ravi Subramaniam (Intel) Jem Treadwell (HP) Minutes: Andreas Savva * The following minutes were approved with no changes: - 23 November 2004 (EMS) - 17 January 2005 (EMS) - 24 January 2005 * February F2F logistics Andrew is in Chicago this week and will be visiting the hotel to sort out the conference room. There will be an update from him probably by end of this week. * Basic Submission API BoF - It is looking more likely that this will be a 'real' BoF and not just as an ad-hoc one. - Dave S has had a meeting with OMII. There seems to be a lot of interest and desire to be involved actively. - Agreed that it is ok to use the OGSA-WG mailing list for carrying out the initial discussion. - Andreas volunteered helping with drafting the charter * ACS-WG approval - Hiro mentioned that a new OGSA-related working group---ACS-WG--- has been approved. There was a presentation about it in a past OGSA F2F and a mention in the OGSA version 1.0. - ACS stands for Application Contents Service. It is a kind of repository service, including archive format, for all data related to deploying and configuring applications. It is related to (but not overlapping with) CDDLM. - The BoF was held during GGF12. - It is Business Grid project initiated. Initial draft is based on technology developed by the project. - There is a relation between ACS and SolutionInstallion recently published by IBM and others. There is discussion on defining a common archive format. (Issue raised during the GGF12 BoF.) - Keisuke Fukui (Fujitsu), Peter Ziu (Northrop Grumman) and Tom Studwell (IBM) are the co-chairs * Basic profile (BP) ** Process discussion - A newer version of the basic profile document is not available yet. (Tom is working on it; probably available in a couple of days.) - The current draft has many holes and lots of comments - Comments were inserted mainly from Dave S and Tom M independently. Tom as part of the next revision will move the substantial ones to the gridforge tracker. - It's ok to look at the current draft and comment on anything not marked as XXX. Tom is adding stuff rather than revising existing statements. - Need an issue generation process - In particular leading up to the F2F; to produce an agenda Action: Andreas to announce gridforge tracker and that new issues can be uploaded directly to the tracker or sent to the mailing list. The following template should be used for email submissions to the list. 1. [Issue] "Summary" in subject 2. Reference the relevant section of profile 3. Provide a precice and concide description of issue 4. Optionally proposed resolutions and which is preferable. - The tracker at the moment is set to send email to the list only on new submissions. - Agreed that, to generate some interest, for a limited time (e.g., until the F2F) this tracker should be set to send *all* activity to the list. Action: Andreas will update the settings of the tracker. ** Technical discussion - WS-Addressing reference properties change - Ref: recent discussion on the list starting with http://www-unix.gridforum.org/mail_archive/ogsa-wg/2005/01/msg00036.html - Dave S gave a quick summary of what the change means and why it does not affect OGSA work. - The information (resource indicator) that used to be in the reference properties is part of the identity. - And the way W3C has defined reference properties they should not be used for identity. - The 'proper' place for it is then in the wsa:To field. - This information is available to any intermediate processors. - The only thing that is lost by the change is the ability to have a full XML document as a resource indicator (possible with refererence properties). - WSRF already had distanced itself a bit from WS-Addressing with embodiments so this is not a big issue. - Steve Tuecke's email is the one probably explaining the issues best. [Probably http://www-unix.gridforum.org/mail_archive/ogsa-wg/2005/01/msg00045.html] - The Basic Profile might have to say something more concrete (which is the desired embodiment). - Role or position of WSDM and should it be in the basic profile - WSDM was using "set resource property" extensively (need to check.) There is an issue with whether a generic "set propery" should be in the basic profile. Many 'stakeholders' have no requirement to change properties, or think that if such functionality is needed then specific operations for each item should be defined. (Also there is an argument that such an operation is not in line with SOA, and so on.) - Ravi has a different position and will post an issue for discussion at the F2F. - Should make WSDM aware about the 'set resource property' issue. (Provided wants WSDM to be 'aligned' with the OGSA profile.) Fred is the OGSA-WSDM liaison. - So at the moment the other profiles (EM, Data, etc) will have to extend the basic profile in order to use WSDM (and so allow for feature not in the basic profile). - Probably WSDM should be in the Basic profile and a version 2 basic profile might include it. - At the moment though the Basic Profile version 1 focuses on a level of specs that is at a lower level. The specs themselves (WS-Addressing, WSRF etc), and on which WSDM builds, are still not quite fixed so building many more layers on top increases the risk of the 'shifting sands' problem. - This led to the decision of restricting the BP to as few layers as possible and excluding WSDM for the moment. - Is WSDM needed or can something 'simpler' be used? - The example raised was WS-Management and 'generic' web services. - The way the profiles are defined disallow WS-Management since it is neither standard nor in the process of standardization. And there is no public material about it. (DMTF has some material but they are WG internal.) Action: Ravi will check if there is public material on WS-Management. - It is possible to 'water down' the profiles but then their usefulness would be limited. (Have to tread the line between allowing people to implement interest stuff while allowing for interoperability.) - Is WSDM 'too heavy?' - There was a demo running on blackberry (server) specifically to counter this claim. A 100K or so. - Note that the client was 'heavier' than the server. Action: Fred to send link to the OGSA-WG list (done) * Other - DRMAA was named as a candidate for the EM profile. In particular there was some talk in the past about a WSDL rendering, which may be starting up again. Need to discuss it on a future call. * Next call Over the next couple of weeks there are a number of events (WSRF & WSN F2F and GlobusWorld) so attendance may be low. Agreed that for next Monday the focus will be on issues gathering for the F2F, F2F agenda and logistics. Agreed to cancel Wednesday's call.