OGSA Nov f2f Friday AM ====================== JSDL/XQuery/Information ======================= - JSDL 2.0 BPEL from IBM / Microsoft - political problems - no everyone using it. Language and dependency based workflow systems - can translate from one to other - Not really relevant - BPEL is an XML language not a programming language What are the dependencies - really it’s a programming language in XML

Tooling is available for BPEL No problem with BPEL - Job simple dependencies can be done in a classads type manner - capabilities and requirements could be used to do this - need to capture the real underlying requirements/dependencies between jobs - Consider the ClassAds DAGMAN approach Are you wanting all the ideas from DAGMAN? - Dagman still has an unexplained graph - Control flow with implied data flow Links can only have one source and one target - Weird and not good - Multiple outputs are possible from items - Links are for control - Can set properties on links Can we type and size of flow? - can't do that - Can tag in variables but this has no explicit meaning Data is two types - Control data - Actual data for Application Make data flow specific as components in workflow - Then can add QoS on top BPEL is high level language -> Is this good idea? - For some cases yes - can have other ways - Does this cause creep? - Can't prevent this should embrace it - Specific dependency should be modelled as resource dependency - Might be better if application works this way Keep focused at underlying parts - Not high level constructs Some want just links in a graph - that's fine - OGSA should provide modelling constructs Can we use BPEL? - It’s a hub and spoke approach - Can't really do distributed Graphs Can we propose that we have multiple approaches and how to do each of these? - Set up a design team to look into this? - Do we have consensus for this (design team)? - Should be short lived design team - Don't do the work just figure out what can be done - Sort out what is out there and what could potentially be done - to lead - Initial deadline - preliminary report for January meeting Choreography vz Orchestration - you refer to BPEL as choreography but its orchestration - Difference is Orchestration is one users view while choreography is more a systems view - Spec uses the word choreography Job Submission document - is that a JSDL? - Yes and perhaps the BES extra documents What is different between 1.2 and 2.0 of BPEL? - Change way to do add in new types of activities as was broken in 1.2 - If then else - Extended for each - variable initialisation - XSLT for variables - Expressions support improved - link variables to doc/literals - better support for long running jobs - In general better and more complete Most have implementations of 1,1 some 1,2 and one or two implementations of 2.0 coming Use of BPEL + JSDL - OMII - BPEL (Sedna project) - Intel has an offering XQuery ====== Any reason for security elements being one or more - No slides are not perfect [Sample BES2 document] Document seems to have four endpoints - Intention is that each host is a front-end to a cluster Do you match between VO and host? - Not a this stage this was a proof of theory - should do it later Can we render these capabilities and requirements into XML? - How do we automatically do this? - We need to gather this info from hosts or hosts to find schedulers/job managers to pass this info in - How far does the XQuery mash up go? - Need mechanism for pushing info into advertising space - Need to investigate how to generate XQuery - Need just to define signature for functions Can use XQuery for mapping from red to Blue Information services provide capabilities up - IS there a collection point for these advertisements? Does this them project XQuery representations out? Or leave this to developer? - Shouldn't leave this to developer - Need to support both - Industry needs to worry about how to get information from system - Need to look at this as more of an end to end problem WS-Policy - can do a lot of what we want. Need better examples Look into policy and relationships to what has been defined so far < -> ES> - Look at how to avoid overlap with WS-Policy group Is XQuery too heavy-weight for this? - Perhaps not Is this something for SCRUM? Is it still active? - Yes it's active and perhaps appropriate Need a design team for how to collect data Need to relate this to other work in the community It may not be able to do this in a transparent manner to JSDL 1.0 So would just ignore JSDL extensions - Can just ignore How do you keep new resource section and old one in sync? - shouldn't use both together But you have to handle all extensions or throw document - So two competing specs wouldn't be implemented together - Could replace resources with this in JSDL 2.0 Showing code not possible - will happen at later telecon