DAIS Telcon 27/07/04 ==================== Chair : Norman Paton Minutes: Mario Antonioletti Present: ------- Mario Antonioletti, EPCC Brian Collins, IBM Norman Paton, University of Manchester Simon Laws, IBM Dave Pearson, Oracle Amy Krause, EPCC Agenda: ------ 0. Minutes/Actions. 1. Session Planning for GGF12, including possible joint activities with: GSM OGSA Data Design Team Access to Data in Files 2. Discussion of activity on Socialising Specification (Dave Pearson) Actions: ------- New Actions: none Outstanding [Mario] Mail list stating that process for resolving trackers outlined in previous mailing is the one to be used in future. Done. [Norman] Email the people involved in the Object Data Access Realisation to see if this effort can be picked up again. Done. --- Norman: have proposed two items ... but we do not have any of the relevant people on the call. Brian: Regarding DAIS and files. Currently trying to determine what the best thing to do for GGF11 regarding files. Had a chat with Neil Chue Hong last week - he's relaxed about having joint sessions with DFDL and DAIS at GGF11 and it would be good to have a part sessions with each of these groups. Have had some communication with the DFDL people ... they do not have much effort available to have a joint session. The second activity would be with DAIS. Have been trying to write a files representation based on POSIX. So, far it has been fairly easy ... we could even submit a document to the DAIS WG on files and have a presentation ... in the order of 45 minutes. Norman: What is your status as a group? Brian: not totally clear ... have e-mailed the area chairs and have not had a response.... Dave: Peter is in the process of moving ... Norman: I see no difficulty with us offering you a 45 minute slot to do a presentation. Will need to interact with Dave Berry and Peter Kunszt regarding the other sessions. Brian: Norman could you make sure that the joint session does not get scheduled so as to clash with a DFDL session. Norman: Will endeavour to do this. Dave: there was a response to the GGF session plan from me and Mario regarding mappings. Mario: I suggested having a follow-up session to the mappings one held at GGF11 where the emphasis would be on scenarios that emphasised the differences between the different potential mappings. Norman: there is already a session to talk on the WS mappings issues ... not sure what is going to happen at this session as the relevant team has not had an opportunity to get together ... have a follow-up telcon after this ... the default position will be to put forward the current document and to put some definite proposals for DAIS for discussion ... Dave: the best way to address this is to try and identify some scenarios that identify differences ... Simon: I agree with both comments ... draw a line under the existing document that used some scenarios to outline the options ... Norman: my thought was to try and shut down that document without doing too much work ... Simon: happy to draw a line under it ... Dave: In the email I sent I referred that Tony Hey was keen to draw such scenarios... don't want to leave at the current level ... Simon: not disagreeing with this ... question is whether this goes into the existing document or in a separate document that tries to draw conclusions. The existing document is very long so there is a danger that the conclusions will be lost ... keen to put this in a separate document. Dave: this should be raised at the follow-up telcon. Will try to get Oracle to get put some effort into this. Norman: are people comfortable with the sessions? Dave: I think that the topics are all covered ... Simon: there were two 3s ... Norman: a copy-past error ... the third session is supposed to be the dependency on other standards ... ... Socialising the standards. Dave: apologies for not attending the previous call. Have had feedback from Mario and Simon. Don't propose to go through all of Mario's feedback. However he made some comments on the wording used ... these words have been taken from standard documents .. I used the phrase of "Grid Environments" ... Mario asked if we want to mention Grids explicitly and whether do we want to say Grids or services? Norman: backing off the Grid services and mentioning web services might be a good thing. The question of which web infrastructure to use might be a bit too high brow... making it a web service might be a good thing ... Dave: I'll take these comments on board and I'll put out another draft rather quickly. What's more important is the questions. Could add the framework issue to the questions. I can put some more questions - do people have any? who do we target? The EGA, IBM and there are people in Oracle. Norman: the list, XML and object database vendors ... I have contact with two object database vendors ... Dave: looking for names and hopefully point the questionnaire at somebody specificly. Norman: with the XML vendors could try to go to the XQuery emailing list and to try and get some names from that. Could try to get Amy and Susan to try to do something ... Amy: Nothing has happened yet ... have not been in touch with Susan for a long time. Norman: now is the time ... can you and Susan try to get a list? Dave: I can send you an email with the request. Amy: that would be good. Brian: for IBM as a vendor it's probably best if we come in through one route? Have you decided what you might do? Dave: I could approach the database or web sphere group or go through the web standards group ... would be happy to send it to you. Brian: a matter of getting people's attention ... me, Susan and Simon can talk about this and get back to you. What about other vendors like Microsoft? Dave: I know Jim Gray and can ask for his advice. Don't know anyone in postgres or other vendors. Would appreciate suggestions for other vendors ... ... Norman: there are people that do middleware ... Arjuna, ... and there are people like SAP ... Dave: will look at these and also target system integrators. Brian if you could think of IBM global services that would be good ... have summaries of all these. ... Norman: are you comfortable about having a slot at GGF12? Dave: yes. AOB --- Mario: In Grid Forge can I do some tidying up of the "current" documents folder ... there are a lot of documents there that no longer apply? Norman: yes Dave: after GGF11 previously discussed the possibility of looking at the core document and seeing if that could be do data access without providing any access interfaces Norman: people at GGF11 talked about providing a top level operation and then allowing the extensibility mechanism to take over ... the top level gives you the behavioural characteristics Dave: in terms of the commercial environment that would make it more acceptable ... Norman: having a top level operation was one of the things that I had flagged up for discussion. ---