DAIS Telcon 06/05/04 ==================== Chair: Norman Paton Minutes: Mario Antonioletti Present: Mario Antonioletti, EPCC Simon Laws, IBM Norman Paton, University of Manchester Brian Collins, IBM Amy Krause, EPCC Susan Malaika, IBM Dave Pearson, Oracle Agenda: Actions from the previous telcon DAIS Mappings Document (Sastry Malladi/Simon Laws) Core Specification Issues (Simon Laws) AoB New Actions: ------------ [Norman] Talk to Allen to suggest having a discussion of the OGSA Data Service document at GGF12 and check to see whether Allen wants to have a session at GGF11 to discuss the Data Services. Actions Resulting from previous Meetings: ----------------------------------------- [Dave] Email Greg and Malcolm to determine a time when they might be able to join a telcon in order to see how to take the composite request framework forward. Have sent an email - have not had a reply yet. [Simon] Document the DAIS folks that are liaising with other GGF WGs. ----- Some discussion was had on whether we should have an OGSA Data Services telcon. It seemed that it would be difficult to do things before the next GGF as effort was being drawn into the OGSA Data Design Team which is trying to flesh out the data aspects of the OGSA architecture. It was perceived that in the long run this would help the OGSA Data Services document. Norman will chat to Allen at some point. Simon requested that the core spec should be discussed first. o Core Specification Issues (Simon Laws) There is a spec writer's meeting taking place in London next week those that have expressed an interest in this are attending - some of the discussion was geared towards the details of this. Simon: have been working with Mario on the base document and also on the WSDL for the base for the relational and rowset interfaces. Will send out another version of WSDL to the folks writing the specs. There are a number of issues that have come out of this exercise - also there are issues from Manchester and issues from Brian looking at the relational stuff. Need to try and collect these issues in one place. What more do we need to do? Mario suggests distributing the draft documents amongst the group. Amy has had a look at the WSDL Simon distributed and made some changes. She has also noted some issues that have been pointed out by Steve Langella. Will prepare some slides forthe meeting. Norman would like to know if there is anything he should concentrate on. Susan may still be able to attend the meeting in person next week. Will decide in the next couple of hours. Susan wants to clarify what the infod and DAIS remits are. There does not appear to be a clear consensus as to what the remits of these groups is. Norman states that DAIS deals with the synchronous operations while infod concentrates on the asynchronous. He wonders if this is a problem that prevents work from taking place at the present time? DAIS will have updated spec documents for the next GGF - are infod going to have updated documents? Susan: infod do not want to have updated specs for GGF11. Norman: is it possible to agree to have a slot at GGF12 to discuss overlap? There will be updated documents for both groups. Simon: should we not look at it before then? Norman: DAIS is synchronous while infod is asynchronous .... we don't feel super territorial of where DAIS lies ... Susan: it's harder for infod because it is trying to shape itself .. DAIS is well established which is why it is harder for infod. Trying to work out whether there should be a session at GGF11 ... if there is an infod session at GGF11 ... we will have seen the DAIS specs and we could undertake some positioning ... infod also needs to try to position itself with respect to WS-Notification ... infod have taken the DAIS 3rd party delivery scenarios as a starting point for its work ... Mario suggests sending out a scoping paragraph to the infod mailing list. Norman: not sure about the status that anyone of us might might have in sending an email ... is the infod charter any clearer? Susan: I'm not sure if the infod group has been approved yet. ... if it's not the right time in dais to do this then I can try to work this in infod ... I'll take a closer look at the charter and talk to Chris and Dieter ... we could have a short discussion at Hawaii. Norman: happy to discuss specifics... Susan: priority should be to try to get the DAIS specs .. and infod can cement its relation with WS-Notification. o DAIS Mappings Document (Sastry Malladi/Simon Laws) Simon: have made progress, Savas is on holiday at the moment and the document has to go through the IBM and Oracle legal departments. The document is basically done but missing the conclusions - trying to map DAIS to different infrastructures - have 5 scenarios to do this with - same as those described at GGF10 (see slides in Grid Forge). However there are difference views on what the conclusions should be. We may end up examining the scenarios and letting the reader draw conclusion for themselves. Norman: I am comfortable with that ... Mario: are you going to note the pros and cons for each of the scenarios? Simon: have examined pros and cons ... have not decided whether to include these in the document or not ... not always clear whether a thing is a pro or a con ... my thought is that we will go through the formal approach and not go through the pro and con. Norman: the devil is in the detail ... is it going to be possible to distribute the document? Simon: Savas is currently on holiday ... and still have to pass through the legal people ... about 2 weeks behind where we thought we would be ... it should be out before GGF11. * discussion on the document is postponed until after publication Simon will try to get it out by the end of next week. * There was some discussion about document submission deadlines. Amy noted that it was the 14th May from the GGF web site. This came as a surprise as the expectation was that it would be two weeks before GGF. The planning had been based on the expectation that the document deadline would be on the 21st of May. The spec teams meetings had been planned on this assumption. It was agreed that Norman would send an email to the GGF people objecting to this. * Some discussion of the DAIS session that have been suggested for GGF11. Larry has asked for 2 CIM GGF sessions. The CIM call this week could only take 3 people at one time and Brian was one of the lucky people to get in so he reported on this. Brian: CIM have had two calls thus far .. the conclusions from this week's telcon - have found some previous work in this are from before which Larry has turned into UML diagrams. The group has looked at Norman and Susan's doc submitted to the previous GGF - the simple diagram that Larry has drawn takes access into account but things like management will require more detail. Have another call next Tuesday ... reasonable progress is being made. ... Talk proceeds on the DAIS GGF sessions. Norman: session 1 is going to be on the core spec, session 2 on the realisations, session 3 the relationship to other standards and there was a placeholder for DMTF but this has moved on to the DMTF group ... Brian is going to present something on the relationship of DAIS to other GGF working groups. * it was thought that it might be good to have Brian's presentation earlier but Norman stated that we do not have control the ordering of the sessions - Norman still thinks that the spec session should be the first session. Susan: you can mention the other relevant sessions in the core spec presentation ... Norman: session 4 is the web service representation .. has it been determined yet as to who is going to be on the panel? Simon: Savas and Sastry ... we need a third party for the wsrf corner.... will try asking Steve Graham Norman: ... it should not clash with OGSA sessions ... session 3 relationship to other standards ... possibly the CIM stuff ... could do spot data services ... Susan: files? Brian: have put out a 2nd version of the charter ... Peter Clarke has organised a telcon where all the data area working group chairs will attend. Peter Clarke has made positive noises thus far. At the moment do not see any obstacles ... have also had a significant input from Ohio which will be presented at the telcon ... if the BOF goes ahead there is no need to have a file slot. Norman: should focus the file discussion in the BOF .. would muddy the waters to anything in DAIS ... a document submission mail came from GGF on the 14th of April ... much too late ... *Dave Pearson joins the telcon at this point. Dave: in term of data services is it worth doing anything about scenarios. Norman: I mean the DAIS data services document - do not mean the architecture ... best not muddy the waters ... will email Allen to see if he wants to do anything on data services ... Brian could you do 30 or 45 minutes on the GGF WG relationships? ... Brian is prepared to be flexible. Norman: Dave ... the document submission deadline is 3 weeks before the deadline ... this was announced on the 14th of April which is much too late ... was going to send the email to the GGF. Dave: I agree with you Norman - we've been involved for a long time in GGF now ... your email should be cc'ed to Peter and David. o AoB * aob stuff already discussed.